Political Oppo

"CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist)" (ccpbb) 07/27/2016 at 23:13 • Filed to: None

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Audi for your time....and political after the break..

I’m not the biggest fan of Trump or Hillary and I’m not one to play fill in the blanks with “Vote ____ to defeat ____”. Then we bring in the question of Third Parties. Dan Savage gives a good dissertation on how inherently doomed these third party candidates are.

This is from Dan Savage’s podcast “ !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! ” and perfectly embodies how crippled from the start the third parties are.

Alright, blah blah blah. Sorry I had to stop you. Yeah, let’s talk about the Green Party for just a moment, or third parties, getting a third party movement off the ground here in this country. Because we are sick of the two party system!

Here’s how you fucking do that: you run people not just for fucking president every four fucking years.

I have a problem with the Greens, I have a problem with the Libertarians. I have a problem with these fake, attention seeking, grandstanding Green/Libertarian party candidates who pop up every four years, like mushrooms in shit, saying that they’re building a third party. And those of us who don’t have a home in the Republican Party, don’t have a home in the Democratic Party, can’t get behind every Democratic position or Republican position, should gravitate toward these third parties. And help build a third party movement by every four fucking years voting for one of these assholes like Jill fucking Stein, who I’m sure is a lovely person, she’s only an asshole in this aspect.

If you’re interested in building a third party, a viable third party, you don’t start with president. You don’t start by running someone for fucking president.

Where are the Green Party candidates for city councils? For county councils? For state legislatures? For state assessor? For state insurance commissioner? For governor? For fucking dogcatcher? I would be SO willing to vote for Green Party candidates who are starting at the bottom, grassroots, bottom up, building a third party, a viable third party.

You don’t do that by trotting out the reanimated corpse of Ralph fucking Nader every four fucking years. Or his doppelgänger, whoever it is now, Jill Stein and some asshole-to-be-named four years from now. You start by running grassroots, local campaigns. And there’ve been — and I’m sure we’re going hear from lots of people out there listening — there have been a couple of Green Party candidates who’ve run in other races here and there across the country. But no sustained effort to build a Green Party nationally. Just this griping, bullshitty, grandstanding, fault-finding, purity-testing, holier than thou-ing, that we are all subjected to every four fucking years by the Green Party candidate.

And the folks, including you caller — and I love you and I respect you and we’re having this debate and I’m not treating you with kid gloves because I respect you — who are fooled by them, who are sucked into this bullshit, who are tricked by these grandstanding, attention-seeking, bullshit-spewing charlatans, into wasting your vote.

Which is what you are going to do, I’m sorry to say, to circle back to the top of your call. You are essentially, if you’re voting for Jill Stein, helping to potentially elect Donald J. Trump president of these United States. Which would be a catastrophe.

Which is what some people say that they want. People supported Ralph Nader in 2000 and said there was no difference between Al Gore and George W. Bush, therefore we could all afford to throw our votes away, protest-style, on Ralph Nader, who had no hope of getting elected, because there was no difference between Bush and Gore.

These same people, at the same time, said that George Bush was so manifestly obviously terrible that he would bring the revolution if he got himself elected somehow. They didn’t say this about Gore, he wouldn’t bring the revolution. They’re exactly the same, exactly as awful, but one would bring the revolution and one wouldn’t. Which means they weren’t exactly the same and they weren’t equally awful.

And we’re hearing the same thing now about Hillary and Donald. That they’re both equally awful. They’re both equally terrible, corrupt two party system, fuck it, fuck it, fuck it. Fuck them both, fuck both their houses! Vote for Jill Stein!

And if Donald should get elected, oh he’s so terrible, so much worse than the equally awful Hillary Clinton, that his election will bring the revolution.

It’s bullshit.

The revolution did not come in 2000 when George W. Bush got close enough to winning to steal the White House. It will not come if Donald J. Trump gets his ass elected.

Disaster will come. And the people who’ll suffer are not going to be the pasty white Green Party supporters — pasty white Jill Stein and her pasty white supporters. The people who’ll suffer are going to be people of color. People of minority faiths. Queer people. Women.

Don’t do it. Don’t throw your vote away on Jill Stein/vote for, bankshot-style, Donald Trump.

And if you want to build a viable third party, more power to you. I could see myself voting for a Green Party candidate for president in 25 years, after I’ve seen Green Party candidates getting elected to state legislatures, getting elected to governorships, getting elected to Congress. Then you can run some legitimate motherfucker for president.

dogisbadob > CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist) 07/27/2016 at 23:37

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Jill Stein ran for governor against Mitt Romney. In addition, there are at least 100 from the green party already in office!

Gary Johnson and Bill Weld were both successful governors, but the ultra-conservatives hijacked the GOP.

Hillary had DNC insiders and superdelegates quashing Sanders. Also, Bernie Sanders is the longest-serving independent in Congress.

Trump’s rhetoric, and Hillary’s tainted victory, have pissed off people on both sides, to the extent that Gary Johnson may actually have a chance this time. If he can make the 15% polling in time for the debates, he will CRUSH Hillary and Trump, and Bill Weld will wipe the floor with Tim Kaine and Mike Pence.

Matt Nichelson > CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist) 07/27/2016 at 23:39

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Holy fuck there’s a lot of fucking fucks in that. That being said, I agree. If a legitimate third party wants to make it into the fold, they don’t need to start at president and try to work their way down. It won’t work and it’s just asking for a disaster. There’s a better way to do it. They just can’t seem to get it together, though. All they end up doing is bowing out and telling their voters to vote for whoever from the big 2. Classic example is Ross Perot when he ran in ‘92 and '96.

Your boy, BJR > Matt Nichelson 07/27/2016 at 23:47

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LOFuckin’L you fuckin’ think that’s a lot of fucks? For fucks sake. This shit isn’t even fucking close to the amount of fucks I hear on a daily fuckin’ basis.

Sincerely,

A resident of the greatest fuckin’ state in the world, New Fuckin’ Jersey.

Matt Nichelson > Your boy, BJR 07/27/2016 at 23:50

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Ha! Alright, ya fucking win today.

Hot Takes Salesman > CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist) 07/27/2016 at 23:53

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I’m just going to create photoshops until the election is over, or when Trump kills me. Whichever comes last.

Your boy, BJR > Matt Nichelson 07/27/2016 at 23:55

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Aaaahhhh you're right ya fuck

Berang > CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist) 07/28/2016 at 00:11

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Dan Savage proves he’s an idiot?

unclevanos (Ovaltine Jenkins) > Hot Takes Salesman 07/28/2016 at 00:25

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That’s the spirit.

CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist) > dogisbadob 07/28/2016 at 00:38

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I’d prefer Johnson over Hillary or Trump. But there needs to be some sort of buildup with the Green and Libertarian party. His name needs to get out there. It can’t be Trump and Hillary prattling around in debates. It has to be all 4 of them.

Disregarding the political party build up, there is also an issue with the amount of signatures needed for a party to appear on a state ballot. NC needs 89k signatures to get on a ballot ! It isn’t like CA where there is a Libertarian, green, and the american independent primary.

Sam > dogisbadob 07/28/2016 at 00:52

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Alright, I’ll be that guy -

Bernie lost fair and square. The DNC doesn’t have enough control to rig the physical election results from state districts. It was shitty that the DNC was trying to sabotage his campaign, but be realistic here - he didn’t have the numbers to actually get the nomination. That’s how democratic republic works. It isn’t “my favorite candidate wins”, it’s “whoever the most people vote for wins." Plus, Hillary at least stands a chance against Trump. Bernie would have been destroyed.

dogisbadob > CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist) 07/28/2016 at 09:12

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Gary Johnson seems to have gotten the 89k signatures because he’ll be on the ballot in all 50 states, including NC :)

ZHP Sparky, the 5th > CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist) 08/03/2016 at 13:40

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A little late to this, but completely agree with the post. The Green and Libertarian parties need to do a LOT more in the off years instead of just showing up at the Presidential election and being butt hurt when they don’t get any attention. WE need to do a lot more – we are truly getting what we deserve as a country here. How many of us even know who our district supervisor is? Hell, how many know who their governor is? People need to actually pay attention to their local politics and vote in absolutely everything they have the opportunity to vote in.

My political opinions line up best probably with Stein – but she simply doesn’t have the experience nor has she done enough to deserve my vote. I know plenty of educated people with very varied and respected careers whose political positions I admire – but I sure as hell wouldn’t simply assume that they’d make a great President. She literally hasn’t held public office, EVER. As much as I support her positions, how does she plan on getting any of it passed in to law? Does she have any working experience working with the other arms of government? Has she proven any level of nuance and negotiation skills to be able to move us in the right direction? Or does she just have one set of opinions, and anything short of that she’s a no go. Has she earned any level of respect and trust from people already in government who’d be willing to work with her? The answer to all these questions is no, and mostly applies to Gary Johnson as well. He was Governor of bloody New Mexico in the late 90s. He hasn’t held public office since 2003 (or somewhere around there). What the hell has he been up to for the past 15 years? How much has he done to build up his party, to get people elected to all levels of government to build a base for his presidential runs? The answer is not nearly enough.

In these regards Bernie Sanders was truly amazing – it’s a shame he couldn’t pull it off, but I hope he continues to stay in the limelight and pushing his positions forward. Between him and Elizabeth Warren I truly think the progressive movement still has hope. They’re both extremely well respected people who’ve dedicated their careers to politics and done so with extremely high standards and principles. Hopefully they keep fighting for what they believe in and we see a lot more of them in the coming years. In the meantime, Stein and Johnson better not just go back to hiding and doing whatever the hell they do between presidential elections and actually keep pushing their causes in a much bigger and national scale.

People saying that Trump and Clinton are equally bad are literally being intellectually dishonest. There is so much about Trump that makes him unfit to hold ANY public office, let alone be president. Defeating him should be the only goal in this election (and after that – rightfully addressing the concerns a lot of his supporters have been facing over the decades, especially when it comes to income inequality and lack of options in much of Middle America – something that many of these people may have literally voted for, but only because of lies they’ve been fed by their leaders), and Clinton is the only person fit to do so in this cycle.